Karl Lindholm (KC): You were on Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood for a long time. In 1969, when Black Americans were still prevented from swimming alongside white people, an episode of 'Mister Rogers' Neighborhood' broke the color barrier. In 1993, when Clemmons made a last appearance on the show, he and Rogers recreated the pool scene, during which Clemmons sang "Many Ways to Say I Love You." And recently he wrote a book about it, called Officer Clemmons. It was not lost of François what these sort of spiritual overtones were. J.T. JBM: That’s J.T. Beaver in Key to Otherland 6. And the way that he signs off his emails, his tag line, I think is very emblematic of who he is, too,– Your writing, singing, acting, officer, diva man, etcetera, exclamation point. But then, he jumped into the role that he was meant to be in and started leading the song. Episode 1065: “Title N/A” It’s a hot day in the neighborhood and Mister Rogers soaks his feet in a small kiddie pool. I knew that there was too much water for that acid to do anything. And I do feel that the world still has not totally changed, but it is changing. But he was one of the few people in St. Augustine, I think, that did some of the things that we had been talking about. The icon Fred Rogers, not only was showing my brown skin in the tub with his white skin as two friends, but as I was getting out of that tub he was helping me dry my feet. That’s something he’d done every year was to come and sing the alma mater for the graduating class. Black and white protesters staged a “wade in” at the “Whites Only” pool at a place called the Monson Motor Lodge. Now, Fred Rogers was actually a Presbyterian minister, so the idea of washing the feet, right, in the Bible, Jesus washes his disciples’ feet. This status was reflected at many community pools across the country, with white people preventing Black people from sharing the water with them. I mean, he talked to me about life in Vermont, which I miss a lot, he talked to me about his dog, Her Royal Highness, Princess Nepal, who’s another important figure on campus, I would say. A visit with a magician. As Clemmons said to the Pittsburgh City Paper in 2018, "I carried the hope inside of me that, one day, the world would change. And I’m not so sure the Civil Rights Act would have been passed had that not been a St. Augustine. Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood introduced Officer Clemmons, a black police officer who was a kindly, responsible authority figure, kept his neighborhood safe, … That was one of the most meaningful experiences I’d ever had. [MUSIC – François singing “There are many ways to say I love you…”], MG: That’s François Clemmons, best known for his role on “Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood.” He was speaking with his friend Karl Lindholm in Middlebury, Vermont. Though segregation was no longer the law of the land in America by the end of the 1960s, Black citizens were still not embraced as equal participants in public life. Twenty-five years later, they reprised the scene during François’ final appearance on the show. Trivia During his final appearance in the Neighborhood, on Episode 1663, Officer Clemmons soaks his feet with Mister Rogers. Every single kid felt like they were the only person watching that program. Bonus Episode: Officer Clemmons Returns With A New Memoir This week in the neighborhood, our guest is Dr. François S. Clemmons, aka Officer Clemmons is back with an in depth conversation.. François Scarborough Clemmons (born April 23, 1945 in Birmingham) is an opera singer, playwright, and lecturer best known for his appearances as Officer Clemmons on Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. François Clemmons was singing in a Pittsburgh-area church when he first met Fred Rogers. It’s how you know who a real queen is.” So, he was this vibrant presence on campus. Hey Jasmyn. The minister-turned-host of "Mister Rogers Neighborhood" found dual meaning in the digits that popped up on his scale every morning. Francois Clemmons was born April 23, 1945 in Birmingham, Alabama and moved with his family to Youngstown, Ohio at an early age. On this episode of the StoryCorps podcast, we’re sharing stories from people who bring their whole heart to the place they live, and help create a feeling of home for everyone around them. What was that like for you? An episode of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood couldn't possibly erase the long history of discrimination in pools and elsewhere. But you heard me today.” It was like telling me I’m OK as a human being. Policeman/Frenchman/Safari Guide in The Lost and Found Teddy Bear 2. Our second story is about an incident that took place at a segregated pool in June 1964 in Saint Augustine, Florida. Putting all his “new friends” in front of the camera was just one of the ways that the children’s television star showed he cared. By Matthew Wright, Daily Mail-Scandalous: The Death of Marilyn Monroe, premieres its final episode on Sunday on the Fox News Channel. On this episode of the StoryCorps podcast, how one man’s decision to forgive the man who murdered his son brought two families together. MG: That’s it for this episode of the StoryCorps podcast. François and his friend, Karl Lindholm, came to StoryCorps to discuss how he became the friendly singing Officer Clemmons, and his relationship with the man known to children as Mister Rogers. MG: So while we were working on the piece this week, you had the pleasure of getting to talk to him on the phone and email with him. Commodore in Spoon Mounta… Shortly after that, I graduated and we had François come back to sing at our graduation. In 1964, a group of Black and white people jumped into a segregated pool at a motel in St. Augustine, Florida. MG: And Jasmyn, thanks so much for bringing us these pieces. Before François could start the alma mater, a few members of my graduating class stood up in the audience and started singing, “This Little Light of Mine,” which they’d learned from being in spiritual choir with him. And so that scene touched me in a way that I was not prepared. Rogers soaks his feet in a pool outside his porch and "Officer" Clemmons makes an unexpected visit. JBM: Yeah, they were really close, I mean, they spent holidays together,– Christmases, Thanksgivings. Meanwhile, King Friday, Queen Sara, and Prince Tuesday get angry at each other, in front of Lady Aberlin. As the scene concludes, in what is clearly a biblical gesture, Fred, who was also a Presbyterian minister, takes a towel and dries Officer Clemmons’ feet for him. But this time Clemmons didn't just use Rogers' towel — Rogers took the towel and dried Clemmons' feet himself. Officer Clemmons teaches her the welcoming song he sang for Elsie Jean. Oh, there’s Officer Clemmons. When Clemmons sat down and placed his feet in the water, right next to Rogers', the two men broke a well-known color barrier. You don’t have any African Americans working here.” He said, “Well I promise you that next time you come down here it’ll be different.” He immediately got busy. It was a milestone. They both join the podcast this week to provide some history and context to the professional and personal relationship between François and Fred. In the scene, Mister Rogers is cooling off his feet in a wading pool when Officer Clemmons comes by. Full Episode. Credits and More. I’m so proud of you, François. I think he was making a very strong statement. Soon Officer Clemmons drops by for a visit and Mr. Rogers invites him to share the pool with him. Also knew we wasn’t gonna be in there long, that someone was gonna drag us out of there. François Clemmons played a character on “Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood,” for 25 years. Ten exclamation points. I mean, swimming pools were famously segregated, and many protests took place around them. In 1969, pools around the country were still shutting out Black people. Rogers knew that pools continued to refuse entry to Black people in 1969 and that racial tensions were rising — Martin Luther King Jr. had been assassinated a year earlier. Clemmons, who saw a connection to Jesus washing his disciples' feet, found the act very moving. It will explore how former LAPD officer Jack Clemmons believed that the ‘scene seemed staged’ when he arrived at Monroe’s apartment on August 5, 1962 The actions in episode 1065 weren't complex: two men took off their shoes and socks, rolled up their pants and then swished their feet together in a shallow pool on a hot day. It’s really a bold casting move to have an African American man play a police officer on your show. François had a really illustrious career outside of “Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood.” He was a professional opera singer, he won a Grammy in 1973, his love for old spirituals led him to found the Harlem Spiritual Ensemble. And you know how at the end of the program he takes his sneakers off, hangs up his sweater and he says, “You make every day a special day just by being you, and I like you just the way you are?” I was looking at him when he was saying that, and he walks over to where I was standing. On this episode, as we approach Valentine’s Day, we're bringing you stories from couples who don't need to look at a calendar to remember that they're in love. And at StoryCorps, these two came to talk about how the owner of the hotel tried to force them out by pouring acid into the pool. MG: And at the end, when Mister Rogers says to him, “I’ve been speaking to you this whole time.” I mean, I grew up watching Mister Rogers and that’s what watching the show felt like. He was best known, because he directed the spiritual choir. Fred Rogers had met François Clemmons at a church service after hearing him sing, and asked him to join the show. During the show, Rogers asked Officer Clemmons, a Black police officer played by François Clemmons, if he'd like to cool his feet with Rogers in a children's wading pool. You may have seen a vintage photo recently resurfacing on social media of Mr. Roger’s cooling his feet with the show’s beloved Officer Clemmons. Road to Resilience: Memories that Move Us Forward. Come in. So, to go back to St. Augustine and it’s still somewhat the same, now that does make me feel bad. CC: The football players. But Rogers' actions were a step along the path toward Black and white people being free to splash, swim and live together. JBM: Yeah, and this song is actually from the second time they did the scene. JBM: You are absolutely right. Though "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" was comprised of simple sets and low-tech production values, the show was a radical departure from regular children’s programming. I did not have a positive opinion of police officers. MG: Well, Cailey, thanks so much for giving us a peek into François’ other neighborhood in Middlebury, Vermont. Everyday? Head to our website, StoryCorps dot org, to check it out. JBM: Yeah and it’s worth mentioning the significance, specifically of pools. Their casual intimacy exposed the bigotry of denying Black citizens access to pools, or any other place in society. Rogers left the pool directly after Clemmons and proceeded to use the same towel. J.T. Scandalous: The Death of Marilyn Monroe, premieres its final episode on Sunday on the Fox News Channel, and will explore how former officer Jack Clemmons … T oday, this small gesture may seem insignificant, but in 1969, it was considerable. Pool-goers were also separated by color due to bigoted fears about the need to protect the virtue of white women from predatory Black men. As the scene concludes, in what is clearly a biblical gesture, Fred, who was also a Presbyterian minister, takes a towel and dries Officer Clemmons’ feet for him. The stories were produced by Jasmyn Belcher Morris with help from Andrés Cabellero. Thanks for listening. I still was not convinced that Officer Clemmons could have a positive influence in the neighborhood and in the real world neighborhood, but I think I was proven wrong. Like buses and lunch counters, pools became a place of protest during the fight for civil rights. The producer of both of these stories is Jasmyn Belcher Morris, and Cailey Cron fact-checked the François Clemmons piece for StoryCorps. During the show, Mister Rogers invited Officer Clemmons to take a break from his work walking the beat and join him in a kiddie pool to cool his feet. In the 1960s and '70s he asked the gay Clemmons to keep his sexuality hidden for the sake of the show; Clemmons, understanding how widely homosexuality was condemned at the time, obeyed. But many white people opposed desegregation, including at pools. I drove over there to talk with him about his life in the South and about Mr. Rogers, one of the great loves of his life. It only takes a second and it be a huge help to us. MG: And that made François the first African-American actor to have a recurring role on a kids’ TV series. In this episode of Growing Bolder What’s Next, we’re listening and learning. JTJ: That had not happened before in this country, that some man is pouring acid on people in the swimming pool. But for this episode, you’ve brought us some quieter, gentler voices. François Clemmons (FC): Fred came to me and said, “I have this idea, you could be a police officer.” That kind of stopped me in my tracks. During the show, Rogers asked Officer Clemmons, a black police officer played by François Clemmons, if he’d like to cool his feet with Rogers in a children’s wading pool. In the Neighborhood of Make-Believe, Lady Elaine is preparing to do a soap opera she calls "As the Museum Turns". Now we have an occasion to talk about the man behind Officer Clemmons — Dr. François S. Clemmons — whose ambition, artistry, pain, and struggle informed the character. This enraged the manager that he poured acid in the water (fortunately, the acid was diluted in the pool water and no one was injured). 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